Held hostage
Held hostage
Due to a recent health crisis with my folks, I’ve been spending a lot of time with them at the hospital and home, which means hearing all the same old COC sayings and lots of visitors from their church. It brings up so many different thoughts and questions now that I’m viewing life with an agnostic/atheist viewpoint, but one thought that I remember from my very young days is, doesn’t Christianity feel like you’re being held hostage? I didn’t ask to be born, but once I was I had 2 options, forced to love and obey my captor, or roast for all eternity in Hell. Neither option sounds like a great choice to me.
Re: Held hostage
I was just talking to a coc person on the phone, and I told her that the God presented by the coc seemed more like an abusive husband.
But yes, I feel so much more free having left the church. When I think about the Bible story at a high level, it just sounds ridiculous. God created man, purposely set him up to fail (knowing he would fail), punished man for the failure of two people, created a torture chamber for anyone who doesn't love him... I'm thinking, this isn't how I parent my kids. That would be called child abuse if a human did it.
So then the person on the phone that I was talking to was telling me to keep seeking the truth (which I said I was), and she kept saying that the Bible is where we need to look. And I was quiet about that. I've got sooooo many problems with the Bible, and the overall picture of God is one of them.
But yes, I feel so much more free having left the church. When I think about the Bible story at a high level, it just sounds ridiculous. God created man, purposely set him up to fail (knowing he would fail), punished man for the failure of two people, created a torture chamber for anyone who doesn't love him... I'm thinking, this isn't how I parent my kids. That would be called child abuse if a human did it.
So then the person on the phone that I was talking to was telling me to keep seeking the truth (which I said I was), and she kept saying that the Bible is where we need to look. And I was quiet about that. I've got sooooo many problems with the Bible, and the overall picture of God is one of them.
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Cootie Brown
- Posts: 3997
- Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2016 4:34 pm
- Location: TN
Re: Held hostage
The historical evidence shows clearly the God Christians worship (Yahweh) is a Canaanite war God and so is Baal. If a Christian will simply Google Yahweh they will see that this is a Canaanite War God. It is not the creator God of the universe.
Setting that rather obvious problem aside, the God of the OT is clearly a human creation. That God has gender (male), emotions, (it has a temper, it seeks revenge, its jealous, it murders at will, and it has an enormous ego because it demands human’s worship it.) It tells humans to do one thing but it does just the opposite. It promises humans that if they do what it does it will burn them alive forever in hell.
This God was obviously created by humans. Dr. Karen Armstrong said in her book, A History of God, that Men created God, God did not create men. And the evidence for that is overwhelming for those that care to actually examine the evidence.
Likewise, religion is also manmade. It’s based on rewards and punishments for the purpose of controlling adherents. Both the promised reward (Heaven) and the threatened punishment (Hell) cannot be proven to actually exist. I wonder why?
If there is such a thing as a God that actually exists then Pantheism or Pandeism are the only two options that strike me as even remotely possible…….either that or the theory that our reality is actually a highly advanced computer program created millions of years into our future.
Religion is all about controlling the people that believe in it. And indoctrinating believers is an absolute necessity in order to get them and retain them. I recently watched a youtube video presented by a Philosopher that explained why "facts and evidence" don't matter when it comes to something that a person strongly believes. I have found that to be absolutely true in the real world.
Setting that rather obvious problem aside, the God of the OT is clearly a human creation. That God has gender (male), emotions, (it has a temper, it seeks revenge, its jealous, it murders at will, and it has an enormous ego because it demands human’s worship it.) It tells humans to do one thing but it does just the opposite. It promises humans that if they do what it does it will burn them alive forever in hell.
This God was obviously created by humans. Dr. Karen Armstrong said in her book, A History of God, that Men created God, God did not create men. And the evidence for that is overwhelming for those that care to actually examine the evidence.
Likewise, religion is also manmade. It’s based on rewards and punishments for the purpose of controlling adherents. Both the promised reward (Heaven) and the threatened punishment (Hell) cannot be proven to actually exist. I wonder why?
If there is such a thing as a God that actually exists then Pantheism or Pandeism are the only two options that strike me as even remotely possible…….either that or the theory that our reality is actually a highly advanced computer program created millions of years into our future.
Religion is all about controlling the people that believe in it. And indoctrinating believers is an absolute necessity in order to get them and retain them. I recently watched a youtube video presented by a Philosopher that explained why "facts and evidence" don't matter when it comes to something that a person strongly believes. I have found that to be absolutely true in the real world.
Last edited by Cootie Brown on Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Held hostage
....or panentheism....I'm still sorting all of this out. Need to do some research on the differences.Pantheism or Pandeism
~Stone Cold Ivyrose Austin~
Re: Held hostage
Pantheism: everything is God and God is everything. This is 'pagan' and witchcraft fits into this scenario pretty well - by manipulating the created world (spells, potions, rituals), you can manipulate/influence God. Think 'Gaia' for instance. The deity = the creation.
Panentheism: God suffuses and is 'in everything' but transcends the created world also. Both Judaism and Christianity (and maybe Islam, I don't know) can accommodate this scenario. Since God transcends all creation, although still totally within all created things, we cannot manipulate God by manipulating created things. The deity is not the creation, although the deity fills, completes and sustains all.
Panentheism: God suffuses and is 'in everything' but transcends the created world also. Both Judaism and Christianity (and maybe Islam, I don't know) can accommodate this scenario. Since God transcends all creation, although still totally within all created things, we cannot manipulate God by manipulating created things. The deity is not the creation, although the deity fills, completes and sustains all.
History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.
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Cootie Brown
- Posts: 3997
- Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2016 4:34 pm
- Location: TN
Re: Held hostage
Any definition of God, or whether a God even exists or not, is based on human perceptions of what they want such a God to be.
Whether or not there is such a thing as God cannot be verified. There is, however, an abundance of evidence that the God's humans worship were created by human's for a variety of self serving reasons. Human's want a God to protect them, heal them of disease, and make them rich and powerful, and physically attractive too.
Oh yeah, and to find their lost car keys and a good parking place close to the store.
Whether or not there is such a thing as God cannot be verified. There is, however, an abundance of evidence that the God's humans worship were created by human's for a variety of self serving reasons. Human's want a God to protect them, heal them of disease, and make them rich and powerful, and physically attractive too.
Oh yeah, and to find their lost car keys and a good parking place close to the store.
Re: Held hostage
The CoC loves confining people in boxes. I had my spirit chained in prison while there. You describe your prison well. The spirit does not reside in a box but lives free. I did have an agnostic viewpoint when I came here. I learned that the Bible had issues. That is the truth. I do feel that Christians should not be telling lies but they do not know the history of their bible. Particularly the New Testament. There was no defined Bible in the 1st century. It got more defined in the 4th. The 1st listing of the 27 New Testament was in 367 CE in the 39th festal {Easter) letter of Athanasius, Bishop of Alexandria. It was not a canon. The means a list of scriptures. The King James dates to 1611 CE. The original had Apocryphlal and duterocanonical books. This is removed from the Protestant Version used by the CoC. The King James was revised in England. I have heard that was never revised by a King James Inerrantist llar. There are many lying inerrantists who are often factually incorrect. So take care. I have heard that the Codex Sinaiticticus was found in a burn basket. The Old Testament portion was. The New Testament was saved intact. It does have corrections. It shows late additions to Mark 16:9-20, The woman caught in Adultery in John and changes to the Lords prayer.flawed wrote:Due to a recent health crisis with my folks, I’ve been spending a lot of time with them at the hospital and home, which means hearing all the same old COC sayings and lots of visitors from their church. It brings up so many different thoughts and questions now that I’m viewing life with an agnostic/atheist viewpoint, but one thought that I remember from my very young days is, doesn’t Christianity feel like you’re being held hostage? I didn’t ask to be born, but once I was I had 2 options, forced to love and obey my captor, or roast for all eternity in Hell. Neither option sounds like a great choice to me.
Last edited by ena on Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Held hostage
In Texas, the Universe finds me shady parking spots. Eat your heart out, Cootie.Cootie Brown wrote:Oh yeah, and to find their lost car keys and a good parking place close to the store.
~Stone Cold Ivyrose Austin~
Re: Held hostage
It is tough with constant reminders. I am glad they are getting visitors. Think about how it feels to get none. It took me a long time to figure out why I felt I had no options but the ones you mentioned. I am no longer agnostic. But I finally realized that I had been not been confronted with truth. Not all forms of Christianity are like this. I cannot tell you what your truth is. You have to seek it out. My truth is not yours. Good luck.flawed wrote:Due to a recent health crisis with my folks, I’ve been spending a lot of time with them at the hospital and home, which means hearing all the same old COC sayings and lots of visitors from their church. It brings up so many different thoughts and questions now that I’m viewing life with an agnostic/atheist viewpoint, but one thought that I remember from my very young days is, doesn’t Christianity feel like you’re being held hostage? I didn’t ask to be born, but once I was I had 2 options, forced to love and obey my captor, or roast for all eternity in Hell. Neither option sounds like a great choice to me.
Re: Held hostage
Reminds me of one of my favorite woman libber jokes. Why are men like parking lots? The good are all taken and the ones left are handicapped!Ivy wrote:In Texas, the Universe finds me shady parking spots. Eat your heart out, Cootie.Cootie Brown wrote:Oh yeah, and to find their lost car keys and a good parking place close to the store.