For Agnostics/Atheists Only - Share your journey

[Turtle]

It seems to me that there is a consensus among the non- believers that we need a safe place where we can talk among ourselves about the things that are important to us, without interruptions by believers who wish to join in, either by discussion or debate.

Do we have permission to have such a space or not? If we do, where is it? And will it be respected?

Clear answers to those questions would be helpful.

[agricola]

Here's the deal about that -

Yes it is possible to set up a private group to which only those who ask may enter.

Is that what you want? Because with a private group, you are ONLY talking to yourselves, and people who may be interested can't see what you are all about.

New Paths is a supportive place where people can SHARE their 'new path' and also share what they like about it, and what they do or believe that is different - so a New Paths discussion will be open to questions from people who are not on that path. Sharing means that you can (and probably will) get posts from people who are confused about what you are all about, or object to it by asking blunt questions you've probably already heard a million times before.

I guess the bottom line is, if you ONLY want to post in a private forum on a particular topic, then there are plenty of other online places you could be and probably like better. But if you want to come here and post generally on the support board (being, you know, supportive and getting support) but you also want a safe place here for single topic discussions, then a private forum could be created.


You would also have to decide who you want to moderate that group, and the moderator should be someone at least sympathetic to your group topic, or a member of it whom you trust to be objective. Or if you want moderation at all (the Political Forum is an example of what I am talking about - it is a private group which people must ask to join, and it is not moderated). You may want to set it up so that only your moderator can approve people who ask to join.

As far as I can tell, you comprise no more than maybe five people. Is that enough to sustain a discussion group?

[Turtle]

Thank you for clarifying.

I guess as atheists in the minority, it is hard to feel supported among a religious majority. It feels unfair and out of balance. That is what we live with every day. It is not pleasant to experience it here as well.

[agricola]

Ideally (ideally) New Paths would be the place to explain yourselves to others and clarify misconceptions. I understand that it is not the easiest thing to do for a small minority. If you need or want self-validation, then a private group might provide that. If you want a private corner in order to bash the religious people and snigger about how stupid they are (which, honestly, is what quite a few of your guys' posts look like) then a private group would certainly be the place to go. Or an atheist website altogether where there would be a lot more people - I think BH (yes, our BH) knows of one and posts there.

I will tell teresa. It is ultimately up to her and Petros, and I don't know for sure if this has been tried in the past or not, which it may have been.

[NeverAgain]

Well, GH, as you anticipated in your very first post on this thread, it hasn't lasted very long at all. Too bad. But no surprise.

Agricola has given us yet another, Chapter LXVIII or so, of what the rules, expectations, guidelines and/or intent of this or that thread might be. Does anyone even understand these people anymore? It's past the point of just f**king ridiculous. Threads are moved, rules are changed to suit one person, titles of threads are changed (as if that matters), entire threads are deleted, and messages are edited (including one of mine on this very thread), guidelines change willy-nilly or need constant definition and redefinition.

I finally understand what is happening here. This is not really a Church of Christ support group. Look at the welcome-to-the-board history and see how many, many, many people try and come here for support, and how very, very, very few of them remain, ever post and really ever get any help at all. Most drop away. This is a group for a very select handful of old-time out-of-touch posters to jabber at each other.

Those who remain are one overbearing troll, one woman who seems to think she is called to be the verbose and pedantic star of a real-life Yentl movie, a few doggedly determined to have some kind of real discussion (but slapped down repeatedly), an entertaining comedian who claims to be a Muslim (I'm not so sure of that; he might just like chain yanking), and a handful of people who optimistically try and post on subjects here and there before finally giving up without a word. GH tried to have this agnostic/atheists only thread, just one thread, under what were then the "rules" (apparently they change and morph at a whim), and it was hijacked, not this time by the usual suspect (who, to his credit, did not crash it), but by Agricola. Go figure. Sorry, GH, you were never going to be allowed to have that discussion here.

But here is the most important part of this rant: The shame of this is not that this tiny group has their own personal fiefdom. The shame of it is that when you Google "ex church of christ" looking for a support group, you get directed here. People come, looking for help or support or a discussion of what is going on in their lives. They don't get it. People long out of the CofC and still suffering the repercussions of the trauma that toxic denomination. We have a chance to really help people who went through what we did, and that opportunity is being lost. And the fault is the mismanagement of this site by obtuse board administrators and moderators.

I have had enough. Several of you have sent me personal messages wondering if I would finally get fed up, and I have. Agricola's ridiculous message just now in and of itself might seem like yet another stupid refinement of what these treads are supposed to be, as if anyone could possibly understand them at this point. But it is the last straw. I regret that this site has no value whatsoever as a support board, but I will no longer be a part of it.

[teresa]

The one overarching rule for the whole board is that we NOT bash the beliefs and views of other members of this Support Group. To me that is a given, since the purpose of the board is to support one another, so it has taken me this long to realize that others do not understand that.

So for example, creating a post to say that fundamentalists are stupid (regardless if true or not), is not appropriate for this board. There is one fundamentalist who participates on this board (as far as I can tell), so out of politeness folks should avoid making derogatory comments about fundamentalists. And since there are atheists who participate on the board, creating a derogatory thread about atheists would also be rude. Instead, threads can focus on sharing one's journey, the scientific basis of evolution, that kind of thing.

I think that most of the folks currently participating on this board are skeptics, but I could be wrong. My concern is that the rudeness of a handful of skeptics/atheists have made the board an unsafe place for fundamentalists. It seems to me that some or many folks leaving the CoC will be fundamentalists (at least to begin with), and when they come here looking for support they will find people calling fundamentalists stupid. I am not a fundamentalist, myself.

My efforts in the past to create separate forums for believers and skeptics to solve their conflicts did not help. It polarized the groups even more. And I think that a private forum would increase that polarization. I think that the only thing that might help is if we start to see each other as the life-sized broken people that we are, each trying to meet our universal human needs for acceptance, community, and respect -- regardless if we are atheists or fundamentalists.

[agricola]

the TalkFreethought Discussion Board is a site for agnostics/atheists to discuss topics.

http://talkfreethought.org/forum.php

[teresa]

overbearing troll...verbose and pedantic star of a real-life Yentl movie...an entertaining comedian who claims to be a Muslim

Too much name-calling.

[chrisso99]

The problem is rational atheists "believe" (realize) the rules of logic and evidence used for hard science can also be applied to every other component of life to reach sound conclusions. In many instances (such as the evaluation of the inerrant scripture hypothesis, YEC, etc) the evidence and logic are clear and overwhelming. The ONLY way one can be a fundamentalist Christian (or Muslim or jew or whatever) is through some sort of cognitive bias, ignorance, or blend.

By creating forum rules that prevent atheists from discussing the cognitive bias and ignorance of fundamentalist you create a system where fundamentalists can say all kids of crazy crap to an atheist but atheist has no means to respond without violating forum rules.

Hence the conflict we now have with the forum moderators. Why can't we have an "enter at your own risk" policy for fundies who want to engage with us. No profanity is allowed. Saying things like You are a stupid twat" are not allowed but stating things like " you are totally ignorant on TOE and scientific methods" is allowed. Having someone say "show me examples of speciation" would be allowed but saying it again and again and again and again even after being shown a dozens of examples would not be allowed. Why can't there be an atheist moderator who actually understands the rules of logic and evidence who can occasion filter out trolls posting PRATT BS just to be jerks?

[teresa]

By creating forum rules that prevent atheists from discussing the cognitive bias and ignorance of fundamentalist you create a system where fundamentalists can say all kids of crazy crap to an atheist but atheist has no means to respond without violating forum rules.

I totally disagree. That's like saying you can't have a debate over creation versus evolution without making personal comments about your opponent. Of course you can. All you have to do is present the evidence and let it speak for itself. If folks are not convinced by the evidence you present, making comments about a creationist's ignorance and/or cognitive dissonance will surely not convince them or anyone else.

Now it may be you feel the need for someone to validate your perception of fundamentalists -- but that can't happen on this board. Since this is a Support Group, the idea is that we low-key our differences and focus on supporting one another. There are other places to have your perception validated, if you feel a need to do so, like the board BH mentioned, or PMs to others of like-mind.

I think there are ways to turn a "you" statement into an "I" statement so it doesn't come across as rude. One could say, for example, "When I evaluated the inerrant scripture hypothesis, I found the evidence and logic clear and overwhelming leading to only one sound conclusion. That conclusion is......" You talk about yourself, not about the other person.

Another communication strategy is to allow the other person to have the last word. It's polite, and once we have presented our evidence, nothing more needs to be said. The evidence is there for the person (and others) to consider if and when they are ready. And chances are the same topic will come up again at a later time to be considered again.