Teresa,
I am a believer that the individual should direct his life as he sees fit. It is my hope that he would do so rationally and that he would deal with others rationally and without the use of force. When a society is told that the "highest good" is for the state and that individuals should sacrifice for the state then that type of altruism is wrong and I believe is a recipe for totalitarianism.
I do not have an answer specifically as to how a government could/should fund the army (the use of impose might not be the best term), but the legislature should create laws that respect the rights of the individual and not confiscate an individual's wealth by force. Particulars under our current system are hard to pinpoint but I would like to see legislators speak in terms of the individual and not a group.
The mind set in our society has been geared for a long time to think in terms of what the government can and should do for us and in light of caring for those less fortunate. It sounds harsh to hear someone speak in terms of the old adage "you make your bed you lie in it", but I really do not have a cold heart and want people to suffer, I just think it is wrong to use force to compel citizens to be "their brother's keeper", that too is a recipe for disaster with corruption running rampant in our government. I understand that my Objectivist views are contrary to the popular conservative/liberal model. I also understand that things don't change over night and answers do not come easy when people are use to doing things a certain way. (right vs. left model)
Prisons can serve a purpose and it should serve as a deterrent. However, it has turned into a place to get 3 squares and a cot and a health plan and an education etc.. I don't like it, but one needs to ask why has it turned into that type of situation? Is it because government has created laws that did not need to be created? Are there old laws that should be repealed? Are sentences arcane and need to be reformed? Many questions to ask.
I hate that some of the things I have written have given the impression that maybe I don't like people and that if you can't afford something, oh well you are on your own. I don't hate people, and I do what I can to help those around me and I do my best to follow the laws. I just put some of these things out there to help people stop and ask why. Why do I believe something to be true and how do I know it to be true are two questions I ask a lot and asking those two questions and getting answers are a big reason why I am not a CoC member any more. If I have sounded mean spirited or uncaring to anyone, please forgive me.
Minimum Wage of $15
Re: Minimum Wage of $15
Shocking I know, who would have thought some might jump to that impression.gordie91 wrote:...
I hate that some of the things I have written have given the impression that maybe I don't like people and that if you can't afford something, oh well you are on your own.....
Isn't the world wonderful...I am all for rational optimism and I am staying positive.
Re: Minimum Wage of $15
Thanks for explaining, Gordie. I think it's good to ask "why", as you said.
I think that citizens of democratic socialist countries view the government as the servant of the people, doing the people's will in regards to collecting and redistributing wealth. So for them it is more a matter of pride to meet the needs of fellow citizens, and less a matter of coercion.
I've noticed, though, that there is a limit to what even democratic socialist states (like Vermont) and countries (like Canada) will do in regards to helping others, including refugees and illegal immigrants. Folks are willing to share their wealth, until they find themselves staggering under the burden of other people's needs, and then they cry "enough". It's not by accident that Vermont State overwhelmingly voted for Bernie Sanders AND a Republican governor. What folks would like to do, and what folks can do, are not always the same thing.
I doubt there is any perfect system. However, it seems to me that to encourage upward mobility we need to meet the basic needs of people as best we can, and provide heavily subsidized education and training. And we need a way to do that systematically rather than haphazardly.
As an aside, as I see it, graduating high school is less important than technical training starting at age 10 or earlier, for those who show technical aptitude. A lot of kids, especially boys, don't have "school-type" skills like sitting still, taking notes, and writing papers, and drop out feeling like they can't make it in the world. But they would thrive in a technical program that prepared them for future careers.
I think that citizens of democratic socialist countries view the government as the servant of the people, doing the people's will in regards to collecting and redistributing wealth. So for them it is more a matter of pride to meet the needs of fellow citizens, and less a matter of coercion.
I've noticed, though, that there is a limit to what even democratic socialist states (like Vermont) and countries (like Canada) will do in regards to helping others, including refugees and illegal immigrants. Folks are willing to share their wealth, until they find themselves staggering under the burden of other people's needs, and then they cry "enough". It's not by accident that Vermont State overwhelmingly voted for Bernie Sanders AND a Republican governor. What folks would like to do, and what folks can do, are not always the same thing.
I doubt there is any perfect system. However, it seems to me that to encourage upward mobility we need to meet the basic needs of people as best we can, and provide heavily subsidized education and training. And we need a way to do that systematically rather than haphazardly.
As an aside, as I see it, graduating high school is less important than technical training starting at age 10 or earlier, for those who show technical aptitude. A lot of kids, especially boys, don't have "school-type" skills like sitting still, taking notes, and writing papers, and drop out feeling like they can't make it in the world. But they would thrive in a technical program that prepared them for future careers.
Re: Minimum Wage of $15
Thanks for delving deeper into your thoughts. Now that I see where you are coming from, we are much more alike than I thought. I can't really take an issue with much of what you said.gordie91 wrote:Teresa,
I am a believer that the individual should direct his life as he sees fit. It is my hope that he would do so rationally and that he would deal with others rationally and without the use of force. When a society is told that the "highest good" is for the state and that individuals should sacrifice for the state then that type of altruism is wrong and I believe is a recipe for totalitarianism.
I do not have an answer specifically as to how a government could/should fund the army (the use of impose might not be the best term), but the legislature should create laws that respect the rights of the individual and not confiscate an individual's wealth by force. Particulars under our current system are hard to pinpoint but I would like to see legislators speak in terms of the individual and not a group.
The mind set in our society has been geared for a long time to think in terms of what the government can and should do for us and in light of caring for those less fortunate. It sounds harsh to hear someone speak in terms of the old adage "you make your bed you lie in it", but I really do not have a cold heart and want people to suffer, I just think it is wrong to use force to compel citizens to be "their brother's keeper", that too is a recipe for disaster with corruption running rampant in our government. I understand that my Objectivist views are contrary to the popular conservative/liberal model. I also understand that things don't change over night and answers do not come easy when people are use to doing things a certain way. (right vs. left model)
Prisons can serve a purpose and it should serve as a deterrent. However, it has turned into a place to get 3 squares and a cot and a health plan and an education etc.. I don't like it, but one needs to ask why has it turned into that type of situation? Is it because government has created laws that did not need to be created? Are there old laws that should be repealed? Are sentences arcane and need to be reformed? Many questions to ask.
I hate that some of the things I have written have given the impression that maybe I don't like people and that if you can't afford something, oh well you are on your own. I don't hate people, and I do what I can to help those around me and I do my best to follow the laws. I just put some of these things out there to help people stop and ask why. Why do I believe something to be true and how do I know it to be true are two questions I ask a lot and asking those two questions and getting answers are a big reason why I am not a CoC member any more. If I have sounded mean spirited or uncaring to anyone, please forgive me.
Re: Minimum Wage of $15
I think it would be great to see this, but I think most employers would cut back on hours of workers, or lay people off. I think a minimum wage of $12 is more realistic for now.
Re: Minimum Wage of $15
I'd like to see the income tax returns for the businesses in these cities that are wanting $15.00 an hour. I suspect that the returns showed $15 an hour was doable for the vast majority of the businesses, just the owners and managers balked at not getting as much as they did before.
The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point is to change it.----Karl Marx
Re: Minimum Wage of $15
Gordie,
Why should people who are poor and people who are not rich back your philosophy?
Why should people who are poor and people who are not rich back your philosophy?
The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point is to change it.----Karl Marx
Re: Minimum Wage of $15
Well - just an example of a slight difficulty with minimum wages (which have been stagnant for years).
Right now in Honolulu minimum wage is around $7.25. A one bedroom one bath house - and old, tiny, beat up little one bedroom one bath house - starts at $499,000. Most people - MOST people - work two or three jobs, and live with their parents - or their grandparents AND parents: all of whom also work.
Rents are along the same sort of lines - high demand, high prices, and stagnant wages do not make a truly viable housing situation. And people NEED housing. Some kind of housing.
What they are doing here, is piling up three generations per house, or else sleeping on the street. At least the climate is okay with that, except it rains a lot.
When the owners of Walmart live in extravagant luxury and pile up multi-million annual incomes, yet the employees are eligible for food stamps (SNAP benefits) because a full time job with Walmart pays below poverty level - there is a systemic problem.
You do realize, that little factoid means that Walmart is using our tax money to subsidize their low pay levels, don't you?
Right now in Honolulu minimum wage is around $7.25. A one bedroom one bath house - and old, tiny, beat up little one bedroom one bath house - starts at $499,000. Most people - MOST people - work two or three jobs, and live with their parents - or their grandparents AND parents: all of whom also work.
Rents are along the same sort of lines - high demand, high prices, and stagnant wages do not make a truly viable housing situation. And people NEED housing. Some kind of housing.
What they are doing here, is piling up three generations per house, or else sleeping on the street. At least the climate is okay with that, except it rains a lot.
When the owners of Walmart live in extravagant luxury and pile up multi-million annual incomes, yet the employees are eligible for food stamps (SNAP benefits) because a full time job with Walmart pays below poverty level - there is a systemic problem.
You do realize, that little factoid means that Walmart is using our tax money to subsidize their low pay levels, don't you?
History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.
Re: Minimum Wage of $15
I re-emphasize my earlier post. Raising the min wage is inflationary. It is not the answer. It's effect is short term and is only a band aid to a systemic problem. Provide the educational opportunities for those who are willing to improve their situation. Give them the ability to earn more. There will always be the lower rung who won't and I am not for forcing a business to provide a temporary safety net. That smacks of socialism and that only works until the other persons money runs out.
From what I have seen of the help at Walmart during the few times I have been there, their help isn't worth more than what they are being paid. Most have no real skill sets. Apparently that is Walmart's business model. Raising the min wage in their situation is doing nothing more than forcing the company to provide a handout to the employees. I am for a free market approach. Develop a business model. It will either work or won't work. We shouldn't be in the business of determining what the managers or owners make. Not our business. However, if you are offended take your dollars elsewhere. They can only succeed if the market lets them.
From what I have seen of the help at Walmart during the few times I have been there, their help isn't worth more than what they are being paid. Most have no real skill sets. Apparently that is Walmart's business model. Raising the min wage in their situation is doing nothing more than forcing the company to provide a handout to the employees. I am for a free market approach. Develop a business model. It will either work or won't work. We shouldn't be in the business of determining what the managers or owners make. Not our business. However, if you are offended take your dollars elsewhere. They can only succeed if the market lets them.
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FinallyFree
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Re: Minimum Wage of $15
I think the minimum wage should vary according to location and cost of living. Minimum wage should be higher in places like New York and Hawaii. That just seems logical to me.