Obsession with Baptists

[KLP]

I can understand them not wanting to support the Salvation Army since they have a long list of their own charities without ever needing to address the doctrinal issues.

Now the CoC on the other hand, has no rational reason to prevent individual support since it is the purview of the individual and the "true" CoC doesn't have a charity organization for insiders much less outsiders (outside the true Church that is). The only course available is to shame the members who do support heretical organizations and to preach a lot of nasty sermons that proof-text why it is wrong to feed and clothe the poor and unfortunate in our society outside the confines of individual action or through a secular organization. I remember those very rants as well.

AH, but the reasoning wasn't because there are other options...it was clearly because it was a "grave" and "serious" error that was being promoted first and foremost that baptism is not required. They went on to discuss this is how babies who die can go to Heaven by having been baptized. On top of all that...was the notion that there are better options for people who still just want to help the poor. They brought up babies going Heaven and marriages not being valid in the discussion of why it is a "grave" and "serious" error to give money to the Salvation Army.

Yes, your point about the CofC lacking CofC charities is correct but that doesn't mean it isn't possible to give to orgs that don't have a religious message...or else one would be asserting that atheist don't care for the suffering of the poor. I recall my mother being very upset when I called St Vincent De Paul to come get some old furniture that we didn't want and a bunch of stuff from an old house. I called them because they had a truck, would come right away, and would load it up. My mother was shocked and angry because we were in essence supporting Catholics with this old stuff we didn't want. She of course said we could have given it to Goodwill or had a garage sale...I just wanted the stuff gone pronto.

I recall as a child hearing discussions about going to Catholic hospitals and/or Baptist/Methodist Hospitals. It was OK to go these hospitals because you were buying a service. But of course going to a Catholic festival was wrong because it was supporting the Catholics...but I wanted to ride the rides and pay for that "service". Nope, it was a fund raiser but the hospital was not a fund raiser. However you had to be on alert because they had nuns and priests going around who would offer prayers and blessings and that was too RCC-ish and an error...it would like you were agreeing their religion was valid. So you had to keep priests and nuns out of the room but otherwise you could go to a Catholic hospital. Lots of rules.

[gordie91]

That reasoning is off base as well. To use that as a justification for not giving doesn't need to be given, in light of all the other charities at the parish level up to the national level. I understand reservations and being careful who we give to but that is a little much and could be very off putting to those less informed. The parable of the good samaritan might be applicable. A need was seen irrespective of religion, and charity was given - no questions asked. Sometimes religious people or groups ask too many questions.

The inconsistency of the CoC arguments multiply on themselves. On the one hand, the person is to be charitable but as an individual and only as a group under certain parameters. The other hand, says giving to organizations that have a heretical message would be wrong because of the implication that the individual would be endorsing the message of the group. So, even though it is the judgement of the individual, there is still a possibility of committing some sin by giving. So what is a person to do? Shut up and do it, withholding their name of course, or just don't go through an organization and go about your business ultimately forgetting about the need. (This example is in reference to impromptu solicitations such as at a store at check out or a public event) Either way there is a sense that one could be sinning. Did the Samaritan ask so many questions?

We must have had parallel upbringing because I remember many of the same discussions and prohibitions about hospitals and festivals. There were too many rules and scenarios to remember so I learned not to ask and have some made up excuse for not being able to go or participate so as to not have to explain something that would never be understood.

[KLP]

...We must have had parallel upbringing because I remember many of the same discussions and prohibitions about hospitals and festivals. There were too many rules and scenarios to remember so I learned not to ask and have some made up excuse for not being able to go or participate so as to not have to explain something that would never be understood.

oh yes...at all cost, never attempt to explain or even come close to having to explain this stuff to friends at schools...just have a "ready excuse" to give to anyone that asketh instead of a "ready answer". I became fairly expert at steering conversations when you could tell some about Christmas was coming up. It was best to just avoid the discussion of "hey what did you get for Christmas" or "where are yall eating Christmas dinner" or "where are yall having Christmas"....just best to avoid. Better to talk about football or hunting.

In Junior High there was a Christmas Parade and I was in band. The band director was a big time Baptist music director (revered/feared by us students) and every one knew I was a PK. I was not allowed to march in the parade. So the CofC preacher parents and the big time Baptist authority figure had a sort of proxy battle through me. I was being pressed at band class why I couldn't play and march to a song that seriously had nothing to do with Christmas (it was a march called Zacatecas ). Still it was a Christmas parade, so no dice (oh, yeah...no dice either). It probably was a bigger deal in my head, but it seemed huge to me at the time. The guy would get totally red faced and he was bald...it seemed like an awful lot of pressure but of course I was standing up for the Truth and the Bible and against Christmas. Then it became a required performance and I was told my grade would suffer...I was a straight A/advanced sort of kid (at that time at least) . It was just nutso. Then I was told I would lose first chair if I didn't come to any and all performances. Times have changed...no way such an thing would happen these days....but then no way I would be in public school these days for all the other crazy stuff that goes on.

But at that time and place, I was forced in to the open to have to explain why we didn't do Christmas and no it wasn't because we didn't believe in Jesus

Luckily we moved about a year later...about 2 yrs was all we stayed in most places before the church situation blew up...such was the life of one PK

[gordie91]

Those little Christmas programs in grade school that used pianos and other instruments! I figured if I just lip-synched and didn't actually make sounds then I wasn't sinning when Silent Night was performed. I crap you negative, a 10 year old kid had presence of mind to rationalize that one and do Milli Vanilli before there was a Milli Vanilli.

I didn't move growing up and so we got to stay in one place and watch all the drama unfold from year to year. Then, after some drama we hired new meat, I mean, hired a new preacher. That preacher in a few short years became my father-in-law. Since that time, they have been in at minimum of 6 different places in 25 years. That means their grand kids, have celebrated the holidays in 6 different grand-parents' homes. So much for stability and identifying with grandma's house.

I played sports so when it came to Friday night football, gospel meeting or not my butt was on the field and their was no entertaining that problem. I suppose my parents knew or realized by that time, if they pulled that out on me that I would have exited rather quickly and unceremoniously. However, I do remember changing into or out of my little league uniform in the church parking lot when I was younger.

I suppose the obsession with Baptist spilled into all sorts of different aspects of our CoC upbringing. Heaven forbid if we look, sound or associate.

[Ivy]

"ready excuse"

Is that the same thing as a "ready recollection"?

[KLP]

More along the lines of 1 Pet 3:15 ... always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason

But you make a good point about the ready recollection and the free from molestation

[onward]

Many CoC groups, especially those in rural areas having older members, are obsessed with any church beliefs that differ with their own “perfect” scriptural interpretations ... especially the Baptists and Catholics. These legalistic CoC groups find no brothers or sisters in any church that refuses to walk lockstep with their narrow belief system, often even if it’s another CoC group.

Thankfully these little fault finding “my way or the highway” churches are loosing their footing and either disappearing or making drastic changes - realizing their obsession with nitpicking the Baptist groups is unfounded and unchristian.

[faithfyl]

Many CoC groups, especially those in rural areas having older members, are obsessed with any church beliefs that differ with their own “perfect” scriptural interpretations ... especially the Baptists and Catholics. These legalistic CoC groups find no brothers or sisters in any church that refuses to walk lockstep with their narrow belief system, often even if it’s another CoC group.

Thankfully these little fault finding “my way or the highway” churches are loosing their footing and either disappearing or making drastic changes - realizing their obsession with nitpicking the Baptist groups is unfounded and unchristian.

I've probably posted this before, but my sister was called out for visiting another C of C church in our city. Considered gravely wrong and she needed a public shaming.

[Tsathoggua]

...We must have had parallel upbringing because I remember many of the same discussions and prohibitions about hospitals and festivals. There were too many rules and scenarios to remember so I learned not to ask and have some made up excuse for not being able to go or participate so as to not have to explain something that would never be understood.

oh yes...at all cost, never attempt to explain or even come close to having to explain this stuff to friends at schools...just have a "ready excuse" to give to anyone that asketh instead of a "ready answer". I became fairly expert at steering conversations when you could tell some about Christmas was coming up. It was best to just avoid the discussion of "hey what did you get for Christmas" or "where are yall eating Christmas dinner" or "where are yall having Christmas"....just best to avoid. Better to talk about football or hunting.

In Junior High there was a Christmas Parade and I was in band. The band director was a big time Baptist music director (revered/feared by us students) and every one knew I was a PK. I was not allowed to march in the parade. So the CofC preacher parents and the big time Baptist authority figure had a sort of proxy battle through me. I was being pressed at band class why I couldn't play and march to a song that seriously had nothing to do with Christmas (it was a march called Zacatecas ). Still it was a Christmas parade, so no dice (oh, yeah...no dice either). It probably was a bigger deal in my head, but it seemed huge to me at the time. The guy would get totally red faced and he was bald...it seemed like an awful lot of pressure but of course I was standing up for the Truth and the Bible and against Christmas. Then it became a required performance and I was told my grade would suffer...I was a straight A/advanced sort of kid (at that time at least) . It was just nutso. Then I was told I would lose first chair if I didn't come to any and all performances. Times have changed...no way such an thing would happen these days....but then no way I would be in public school these days for all the other crazy stuff that goes on.

But at that time and place, I was forced in to the open to have to explain why we didn't do Christmas and no it wasn't because we didn't believe in Jesus

Luckily we moved about a year later...about 2 yrs was all we stayed in most places before the church situation blew up...such was the life of one PK

Wow! Amazing!

I really have no recollection of people in my congregation (Hendersonville Church of Christ) being so against Christmas, when I was growin' up in the 1960s and 1970s.

[onward]

Many CoC groups, especially those in rural areas having older members, are obsessed with any church beliefs that differ with their own “perfect” scriptural interpretations ... especially the Baptists and Catholics. These legalistic CoC groups find no brothers or sisters in any church that refuses to walk lockstep with their narrow belief system, often even if it’s another CoC group.

Thankfully these little fault finding “my way or the highway” churches are loosing their footing and either disappearing or making drastic changes - realizing their obsession with nitpicking the Baptist groups is unfounded and unchristian.

I've probably posted this before, but my sister was called out for visiting another C of C church in our city. Considered gravely wrong and she needed a public shaming.

Can’t take a chance of becoming tainted by outside influences.