Evolution and Creationism

[Ivy]

YEC

Sola, sorry.....by now I'm sure you've concluded that when we say YEC, we are referring to "young earth creationism".

[KLP]

As an example, it has been shown that particles can come in and out of existence within a vacuum......or, "pop in and out of nothing". So......what else that we think we know isn't true, or is partially true, or is beyond our scope of understanding?

Well yes, virtual particles are interesting but not exactly the much coveted pond of ooze in which obviously all life forms. And of course there is much that is not yet discovered or known.

[SolaDude]

I have known a number of people in my life that must have come from the pond of ooze....

[B.H.]

Here is some stuff why evolution matters on a practical matter:

http://www.evolutionary-research.net/sc ... on-matters

[gordie91]

As an example, it has been shown that particles can come in and out of existence within a vacuum......or, "pop in and out of nothing". So......what else that we think we know isn't true, or is partially true, or is beyond our scope of understanding?

Well yes, virtual particles are interesting but not exactly the much coveted pond of ooze in which obviously all life forms. And of course there is much that is not yet discovered or known.

Einstein was not a big believer in Quantum Physics mainly because of the problem that is still yet to be answered about cause and effect. His problem was simultaneity of particles doing dissimilar or random things simply on a whim. He also said that God did not play dice. Einstein was not all too religious and from an early age didn't consider himself to be a believer in God in any strict sense of religion. But his quote about God playing dice is very succinct and informative about reality and specific laws of nature man has been able to quantify, observe and mathematically replicate. Things just can't animate in a purely random manner there must be a cause and this is what he argued with Neils Bohr towards the end of his life.

This is all interesting and maybe one day man will discover or quantify the laws of nature that support quantum physics beyond the random phase but for someone that believes the ultimate life giving energy of God is in all things, that day would be a blessing.

Either way, I see where KLP is coming from and I still have bills that are due and work that has to be done so I will continue on. I like all the other comments as well, I am being sincere this subject is interesting and has the potential to really have some good outcomes, I only lament those public figures that resort to demeaning and attempting to marginalize the other because of their beliefs and opinions. This is for both sides BTW.

P.S. I have a very limited knowledge about physics, very. It is one of the subjects I wish I had applied myself to in the past. Maybe one day I will attempt to understand it better. Anyways, my comments are very remedial based on what I know now, so inform with references if I have missed something.

[KLP]

Here is some stuff why evolution matters on a practical matter:

http://www.evolutionary-research.net/sc ... on-matters

Yes BH, it has it right there in the title so it must really make a case for it...right? Of course reading it fails to make the case. Creationists of course believe and insist on variation, change, and mutation...so that handles all their drivel about having to grasp that things mutate and change. But insisting and believing in actual totally new species popping up from nothing is not what that link is about. What is required on those topics is acceptance in commonality of life forms and variation/mutation/change.

[B.H.]

Here is some stuff why evolution matters on a practical matter:

http://www.evolutionary-research.net/sc ... on-matters

Yes BH, it has it right there in the title so it must really make a case for it...right? Of course reading it fails to make the case. Creationists of course believe and insist on variation, change, and mutation...so that handles all their drivel about having to grasp that things mutate and change. But insisting and believing in actual totally new species popping up from nothing is not what that link is about. What is required on those topics is acceptance in commonality of life forms and variation/mutation/change.

What are you looking for that will serve as evidence for you?

[Ivy]

As an example, it has been shown that particles can come in and out of existence within a vacuum......or, "pop in and out of nothing". So......what else that we think we know isn't true, or is partially true, or is beyond our scope of understanding?

Well yes, virtual particles are interesting but not exactly the much coveted pond of ooze in which obviously all life forms. And of course there is much that is not yet discovered or known.

Virtual particles just demonstrate that something actually can come from nothing, destroying a common argument of the YEC.

[KLP]

What are you looking for that will serve as evidence for you?

Any actual job or task that is needful to Mankind that a person who chooses to believe in a God that Created everything cannot perform.

So if this task is actually needful and useful to Mankind, then yes there would be some "harm" since such a belief would preclude this function from being performed.

Is worry about species extinction needful for Mankind...perhaps. Should the T Rex have been preserved? Extinction itself is not objectively detrimental. But let's assume some species' extinction would be detrimental. OK, so is a belief in evolution really required for a person to study and research how to preserve a species in danger of extinction? No.

So no BH..I do not need "evidence"...I am asking is there anything specifically that cannot be performed due to a belief in Creation as opposed to random accident. Does a belief in ordered design and purpose really hinder a person intellectually?

The answer is no...but this is part of the disparagement that is being discussed...it is this claim, assertion, and/or insulation that belief in Creation is damaging and detrimental and would be tantamount to child abuse to teach anything other than the 13 billion year old ooze pond to young minds.

[Ivy]

the 13 billion year old ooze pond

KLP, is this all you know about hypotheses on the origin of life?