We are the only way and there is no other way

[KLP]

ok, not actually or literally illiterate. But in practical terms they did not apply themselves to the language, study, or communication. Often they are good'ol country boys and have lots of stories about growing up on some farm or fishing. Seemingly they took up preaching as a way to get instant status and a way to get some income. Sure sure, they are all just felt this compelling desire to spread the Gospel...but in many cases it just seemed like looking for an easy career with some community status.

And yes, I know a good number of other denoms and institutional men who have this same mindset. They are often likeable and friendly, but not given to labor. And so they feel called to "serve" others and the Lord.

[Ivy]

I have long thought it interesting that you can have a small cofc congregation with a number of highly intelligent, articulate women in the membership, most with at least a bachelor's degree, and some with advanced degrees in law, medicine, science, and other fields.....yet these women are required to sit mutely in their pews during the services while a high school graduate with no special training is up front giving a sermon, and 12 year old boys are passing out communion and saying public prayers.

I know that's a run-on sentence.

Wait. Has anyone seen The Handmaid's Tale?

[gordie91]

My impression about the "illiterate" preachers is not so much that they cannot read but that they are not very practiced at critical analysis.

For example, if a question comes up that stops the flow of BCV progression when discussing the "plan of salvation" or the five points in the prescribed manner and with the prescribed verses said preacher becomes sidetracked. He will soon return to the progression, as laid out in the tradition of the CoC, only by dismissing or ignoring the point and eventually getting back to the proscribed progression using the acceptable proof-texts. This typically applies to all the standard CoC traditions and almost universally applies to the illiterate and the educated alike.

The difference is usually in technique. The illiterate will fumble for words, use the pregnant pause with wrenching gestures but will eventually return to the plan. The educated person may follow the different thought but for only a moment and then will use finesse and educated words that eventually redirect the person asking the question back to what he really wants to talk about - the prescribed plan and proof-texts. They are also very good at answering questions with more questions which eventually either leaves the person second guessing or completely abandoning the errant thought or question which brings the discussion back in line with standard CoC theology and tradition. Either way, both are very frustrating and to the unquestioned observer both appear as intelligent.

The dummy, which everyone knows, is now blamed when someone leaves. In my case, the dummy preacher is thought to be the reason for our departure by the more intelligent (in-laws) when in fact, I was more discouraged by the blindness of the more intelligent people and only annoyed by the dummy.

I use dummy not in a derogatory way only because it sounds funny, I mean no disrespect.

[Moogy]

My parents’ NICOC had a preacher who was a high-school drop-out. Strangely enough, he was one of the better COC preachers I have heard. Perhaps he was self-educated. His sermons had the usual COC proof-texting and formulas for salvation, but his grammar was fine, and he had good presentation skills.

[Ivy]

My parents’ NICOC had a preacher who was a high-school drop-out. Strangely enough, he was one of the better COC preachers I have heard. Perhaps he was self-educated. His sermons had the usual COC proof-texting and formulas for salvation, but his grammar was fine, and he had good presentation skills.

That really can happen!! He is / was probably really bright. I think reading and studying the bible does sometimes help people develop literacy skills....in the absence of other materials.

[OneStrike_ur_out]

but in many cases it just seemed like looking for an easy career with some community status.

I believe you nailed it there. When it comes to a career choice, it really does not get any easier than preaching. The pay won't make anybody rich, but they won't be hurting either. And you work, like what two days a week? And a lot of cOCs don't meet on Sunday evenings, so if a preacher is with one of these congregations, then that's just one sermon per week. And so let's say that he also teaches a Wednesday evening class. Then that's one sermon and one class lesson to prep each week. Shoot, where do I sign up? LOL

[Ivy]

but in many cases it just seemed like looking for an easy career with some community status.

I believe you nailed it there. When it comes to a career choice, it really does not get any easier than preaching. The pay won't make anybody rich, but they won't be hurting either. And you work, like what two days a week? And a lot of cOCs don't meet on Sunday evenings, so if a preacher is with one of these congregations, then that's just one sermon per week. And so let's say that he also teaches a Wednesday evening class. Then that's one sermon and one class lesson to prep each week. Shoot, where do I sign up? LOL

OneStrike, I'm going to say something on the preachers' behalf. Those two / three services are just the tip of the iceberg of what he and his family are expected to do and be. Plus, there is no job security whatsoever. It's not a bed of roses.

[ena]

but in many cases it just seemed like looking for an easy career with some community status.

I believe you nailed it there. When it comes to a career choice, it really does not get any easier than preaching. The pay won't make anybody rich, but they won't be hurting either. And you work, like what two days a week? And a lot of cOCs don't meet on Sunday evenings, so if a preacher is with one of these congregations, then that's just one sermon per week. And so let's say that he also teaches a Wednesday evening class. Then that's one sermon and one class lesson to prep each week. Shoot, where do I sign up? LOL

OneStrike, I'm going to say something on the preachers' behalf. Those two / three services are just the tip of the iceberg of what he and his family are expected to do and be. Plus, there is no job security whatsoever. It's not a bed of roses.

It might seem that way and for some it is true but for a vibrant functional church there is alot of work that goes on behind the scenes. I have been along with my parents to visit sick and dying that otherwise would be ignored. That is the job of an elder or preacher plus studying for Sunday services. The song's used should coordinate to the sermon and message at the time. Were most preachers likely to do this. No the sermons were often the same old crap. Some guys had a disorganized gift of grab that would run for an hour rather than the 1/2 hour for a well organized message. Have I head much about Greek or Hebrew. Very little. Most did not even know that the English Bible was translated. Jesus spoke Aramaic which was translated to Greek then to English. So what he said was translated twice plus many of the Greek Manuscripts vary. Some have been back translated from Coptic and Syriac in an effort to find what the original said. This is part of Critical Textual Analysis of which most people are not aware. Paul wrote 13 letters not including Hebrews. Hebrews got into the canon (one "n") of scripture. Cannon is a big gun. Canon means straight like a builders rule. It is the names of the books in the Bible. There are different groups with different books. The Bible the CoC uses is called the Protestant Bible. There are many other books but often they are second century or Gnostic works. What the Gnostics believed is not with in mainstream Christianity today. There were several groups each one claiming to have special knowledge. One is called the Gospel of Jesus' wife. It's a Gnostic fragment in which Jesus says my wife. It is not big or complete. Learning about the Bible is a lifetime of work and not ending.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Jesus'_Wife

[Lerk]

but in many cases it just seemed like looking for an easy career with some community status.

I believe you nailed it there. When it comes to a career choice, it really does not get any easier than preaching. The pay won't make anybody rich, but they won't be hurting either. And you work, like what two days a week? And a lot of cOCs don't meet on Sunday evenings, so if a preacher is with one of these congregations, then that's just one sermon per week. And so let's say that he also teaches a Wednesday evening class. Then that's one sermon and one class lesson to prep each week. Shoot, where do I sign up? LOL

OneStrike, I'm going to say something on the preachers' behalf. Those two / three services are just the tip of the iceberg of what he and his family are expected to do and be. Plus, there is no job security whatsoever. It's not a bed of roses.

In my experience, this used to be true, but it's becoming less and less so. Many preachers now (I started to say "younger" preachers, but the oldest of them are in their mid-50s) believe that their job is to study, preach, and teach classes, period. They do not believe that they are being paid to visit the sick or entertain guests in their homes. A preacher we hired back in the early 1990s made that clear before we hired him. He was (and is) an excellent speaker and that church, and the two he's been at since that time, have grown like crazy, due to the fact that his sermons are good. He is intelligent and articulate, and his sermons are sometimes deep, sometimes not so much, but always a good listen.

My younger son is a preacher and, although they do entertain quite a bit, he does not work very hard. Oh, he does a good job of preparing his sermons and classes, and there's a monthly "men's meeting" (and no elders), but that doesn't take nearly 40 hour a week. And he gets paid quite well for his age!

This has not always been the case. The guy that was fired before the first preacher I mention above was hired, prepared lessons of almost exactly the same style as the "popular preacher," but his delivery was tentative and he seemed unsure of himself. He needn't have been because he was well prepared. He spent a lot of his week doing personal work, too. I'd say we lost something when we lost him, but hey, the membership numbers went way up with the new guy!

I'm not saying that there aren't preachers out there that are still dedicated to "personal work," but I'm not seeing it often. (And since I'm no longer a believer, I'd just as soon not see it. I'd like for people to turn to professional counselors when they need advice, instead of to men with bachelor's degrees in Biblical Studies.)

[Shane R]

My father still shares information with me on the open jobs in the NI wing. Outside of the strongholds in the South, it's a fairly dire situation for most preachers. Many of the churches are now looking for someone who will take $1400-1600 a month. This usually means they are targeting a retiree because they always want lots of experience but it usually means the candidates that come onto their radar are young guys desperate to break into the game. Most of the congregations will now condescend to allow him to work a job to supplement his meager salary, as long as it never interferes with Sunday, Wednesday, or Grandma Clara's funeral, and he answers his phone anytime someone gets the urge to call him. In the area my father lives in, you couldn't make one big congregation out of every adherent within 100 miles.

I would hazard a guess that the average congregation size is under 50 outside of the Southern strongholds and a few large metros like Indianapolis, Columbus, and the greater Chicago area. The solution is always Bible study. But no one ever manages to set these Bible studies up. And the thought of loving one's neighbor as oneself seldom enters into the equation. They are dying a cancerous death brought on by their own manner of life: selfish, clannish, hateful. . .