For former members of the fire and brimstone Churches of Christ
http://www.ex-churchofchrist.com/SupportBoard/
http://www.ex-churchofchrist.com/SupportBoard/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1860
Shane, also please add mean-spirited, judgmental and prideful to the list.Shane R wrote:
They are dying a cancerous death brought on by their own manner of life: selfish, clannish, hateful. . .
We do have writings before 325. Not many and they are in Greek. You can find translations in English. Google search is good tool. Papias for instance wrote about the death of Judas. Judas did hang himself but was saved from strangling. And later fell headlong and burst assunder. They spillage was great as Judas was infested with worms and very swollen. The Field of Blood where he fell reaked for years later. The link tells the story but its a eewe. Look under the death of Judas. His works are so old they are fragmentary.gordie91 wrote:In my experience with several "scholarly" and respected preachers and elders over the years has been that generally speaking history begins with Luther. Certainly there are references to people before 325, but are usually quoted for specific and narrow purposes. An example would be Justin's description of a Sunday worship service, however a more comprehensive reading of Justin would prove problematic. Those people that would do more study fall prey to the anti-catholic Protestant view of history and always view any thing from the early church as "seeds of the future Roman Church".
This is the volume I started out with about 20 years ago. Irenaus had a big influence on the way I regarded my CoC upbringing and learning. It can be difficult to read many of those Fathers because we tend to shade their views in a modern context and our own recent history and bias. This leads, IMO, to the catholic bashing that many CoC writers and preachers use when discussing the falling away of the church and the need for restoration. I found over time whenever any were quoted it was a narrow quote taken out of context in order to establish current dogmas and beliefs that support the CoC theology. Of course, on a positive note, they don't comprehend much about the Orthodox Church and seem to be discouraged to argue about things much since Orthodox doctrine is so similar to theirs on many subjects. So they just dog us on the externals like incense, candles and "looking catholic".ena wrote:Church fathers before Nicea are called the Antenicean Fathers. Ante prefix means before Nicea. Nicea today is Isnik, Turkey.
Or Apostolic fathers is used. This is the generation often trained by the Apostles.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Fathers
Generally agree. There is Papius who is so ancient that his works are fragmentary. Judas hung himself but was saved by friends. He was very fat and fell and exploded on the field of blood. He reports that the spillage even reeked till his day. He was born about 75 CE. Matthew reports that he hung himself and Acts reports that he fell headlong and burst assunder. Thanks to Papius we have the solution to an apparent Bible discrepancy. It is NOT found inside the Bible. Clement 1 is a letter written to the Church at Corinth. Some call it 3rd Corinthians. The stuff written is rather dry but often verifies books in our canon and sometimes quotes them. The way the Catholic church evolved out of the practices of the early Church is interesting. The Codex Washingtonianus has painted wooden covers from about the 5th century. It was an altar piece. The Bible inside is older. It contains the Freer Logion an addition to Mark. It is translated in the link below. Maybe is should be part of the innerrant Bible. One side of the cover is also visible.gordie91 wrote:This is the volume I started out with about 20 years ago. Irenaus had a big influence on the way I regarded my CoC upbringing and learning. It can be difficult to read many of those Fathers because we tend to shade their views in a modern context and our own recent history and bias. This leads, IMO, to the catholic bashing that many CoC writers and preachers use when discussing the falling away of the church and the need for restoration. I found over time whenever any were quoted it was a narrow quote taken out of context in order to establish current dogmas and beliefs that support the CoC theology. Of course, on a positive note, they don't comprehend much about the Orthodox Church and seem to be discouraged to argue about things much since Orthodox doctrine is so similar to theirs on many subjects. So they just dog us on the externals like incense, candles and "looking catholic".ena wrote:Church fathers before Nicea are called the Antenicean Fathers. Ante prefix means before Nicea. Nicea today is Isnik, Turkey.
Or Apostolic fathers is used. This is the generation often trained by the Apostles.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Fathers