"Traces of the Kingdom" Refutation project

[Walkingfreely]

@B.H. and @Ivy

I think it is a combo. People can start well and then something turns dark. Like when Jesus criticized the pharisees for making children twice of hell as they were or when God hardens a heart. It is because that is what they want...and he lets them have it. Pretty soon they are so far gone they will "lie for the truth."

Just an opinion.

[Opie]

[quote="B.H."]

One time years ago someone claimed a certain Catholic writer in the middle ages was church of christ because he called the church of he church of christ. I look the guys writings up online and one of his books was written and dedicated to the pope living at the time. I know lots of coc members and preachers are just dumb but that took the cake.
[quote="B.H."]


Yes, when you read Catholic literature they do indeed refer to themselves as the church of Christ. The Catholics were the first to use the name CoC.

[Ivy]

One time years ago someone claimed a certain Catholic writer in the middle ages was church of christ because he called the church of he church of christ. I look the guys writings up online and one of his books was written and dedicated to the pope living at the time. I know lots of coc members and preachers are just dumb but that took the cake.

Yes, when you read Catholic literature they do indeed refer to themselves as the church of Christ. The Catholics were the first to use the name CoC.

Yep.....it does look that way.

[Cootie Brown]

History confirms the Catholic Church was and is the original church of Christ. Even when I was deep into the c of C I realized that.

[gordie91]

Interesting blog. I often wondered when someone might try to answer Traces of the Kingdom.

In my experience, many people referenced his work and my FIL recently brought it up but by this time I had already deemed that work as utterly unviable and totally irrelevant to any of my conclusions to leave the CoC and become Orthodox.

For comparison, and I am sure you have come to these conclusions but for me it was a real struggle to reconcile these contradictions, read history with as blank a slate as possible thus making my own conclusions or read the history of staunch CoC apologists and conform. I could not do that but for some reason intelligent and learned people (Father in Law) can do that and do it with the greatest of ease. I felt like a hypocrite and during the struggle to reconcile history I became a very angry and frankly pompous person when trying to discuss historical matters in this context. I'm paying for it today and still feel like an outcast at certain family get togethers. But I could not and finally decided to publicly not be the hypocrite by looking CoC 3 days a week and the rest be myself. It was real torture and it frustrates me that today, these folk can make statements about "the church", "the bible" and the first century church like it is some static moment in time that is to be recreated without regard for what was said by people from antiquity picking and choosing what suits their ends and desires today. To me that was dishonest.

It is one thing to prefer a system of theology and practice over others but it is something completely different that claims to have recreated the 1st century church today and that all others are hell bound man made religions in light of their total distortion of the historical reality and lack of continuity with history.

[Ivy]

History confirms the Catholic Church was and is the original church of Christ. Even when I was deep into the c of C I realized that.

When I first realized that I was like this:

I was probably into early adulthood by that point; I really can't remember. I guess they didn't want us to know the cat-licks also said they were the church of Christ, and a lot of them probably didn't even know. That was supposed to be OUR trademark.....not theirs!!! cofC™

[Cootie Brown]

The Marcion Churches also considered themselves to be the Church of Christ. Throughout history there have been many groups that considered themselves to be the church of Christ, whether they called themselves that or not.They still believed they were part of Christ church here on earth.

[B.H.]

Everyone and their dog called themselves church of christ.

[FinallyFree]

I believe all believers and followers of Christ make up the church. You do not have to look exactly like the first century church.

[Opie]

I believe all believers and followers of Christ make up the church. You do not have to look exactly like the first century church.

I'm on the same page as you, FF. I believe that there is a church of Christ, and that it is made up of all believers from all denominations, including even some from the CoC denomination. There's not a verse anywhere in scriptures that says we have to look exactly like the first century church, but there are verses that urge us to look like Christ.