Heaven and Hell

[ramennoodles]

I get why someone would not want to be in hell, but I don't understand why anybody would want to be in heaven.

From what I understand from what my CoC taught, all you are going to be doing in heaven is worship God. It's basically nothing more than another Sunday morning worship service... except it lasts for an eternity. And quite honestly that doesn't sound any less better than being burned and poked for all eternity.

I mean, yeah. I get it. It should be something that a Christian should look forward too but it just feels like there should be more to it besides that. It's like we're just wanting to get to heaven just because... we should. Never mind anything about the state of the world or trying to improve it so that new souls that come into the world can live a better life than we did. My own interpretation of the point of heaven according to the CoC just sounds incredibly selfish. I mean, no matter what, it comes down to the fact that regardless of your destination in the afterlife, we have only one life in the real world. To basically try to live your life to get a small chance of eternal peace while basically ignoring your life in the real world to the point where you end up doing real harm while you live.

...You can say that I came up with this conclusion when I heard someone say that "No one would get in the way in their chance of heaven, not even their own son or wife." That stuck a really bad chord with me. I mean, if someone that selfish manages to get in heaven, then I see no point in believing in a deity that accepts that sort of person.

[MusicMan826]

I completely understand what you're saying. I also heard heaven described as an eternal worship service and thought to myself how terribly boring eternity would be. What got me was how some people would pray for Jesus to come quickly and take us away from this world. That was just weird to me. What was even weirder was when preachers would claim that they weren't afraid to die, in fact that were looking forward to it so that they could go be with Jesus. What kind of life are you living if all you're doing is hoping for it to end so you can go to heaven (especially when your odds of getting into heaven are so small in the CoC)? It's all just so strange to me.

[illuminator]

One LONG coc service isn't heaven to me.

[ena]

One LONG coc service isn't heaven to me.

It's not. Would get awfully boring hearing denominations condemned when the elders are carrying harps. I assume they can play. Rev 5. Need to find someone for prayer that lasts so long even God gets impatient.

[Opie]

Some would say that the idea of heaven is another concept that the CoC denomination (along with some other denoms) has gotten wrong. If you would like a better understanding, I would recommend getting a copy of N.T. Wright's book "Surprised By Hope". His insights and opinions are actually very thoughtful and helpful, as opposed to the shallow and legalistic thinking that many of us grew up with.

[bnot]

The coc has given us all poor views on God and heaven. I'm doing my best to transition my thinking away from it. When something is taught from arrogance, we will usually have a bad view of it, and the coc are experts in arrogance.

[agricola]

I first heard that (heaven as one long - eternally long - coc service) when I was pretty small (maybe eight?). Even at that age the whole idea was appalling to me, and at that age, I didn't particularly MIND 'church' (but that didn't mean I wanted it to last any longer!). Even the typical 'heaven' images in the NT never sounded like a place I wanted to spend time in (metal walls, metal buildings, never a tree or a blade of grass) and then our dog died and my mother told me that of course no animals were in heaven....

Why on earth would any sane child want to go to that place?

[Lev]

Some would say that the idea of heaven is another concept that the CoC denomination (along with some other denoms) has gotten wrong. If you would like a better understanding, I would recommend getting a copy of N.T. Wright's book "Surprised By Hope". His insights and opinions are actually very thoughtful and helpful, as opposed to the shallow and legalistic thinking that many of us grew up with.

I second Opie's suggestion. This isn't just a COC misunderstanding; it's a misunderstanding that the COC interpreted from the denominations from which it descended. The Bible really does not include the concept of "die and go to heaven." It does have a lot to say about New Creation. As Wright discusses in the book, that has profound implications for what we do here on earth that affects other people and the earth itself. It also has implications for our understanding of "hell" but unfortunately Wright doesn't flesh that part out very fully in his book. Revelation 21 is a great image of the idea of God "dwelling with man." When I started to think in these terms it really made sense of a lot of the New Testament, especially Jesus' "on earth as it is in heaven" prayer and the whole idea of new creation, which actually is a recurring theme throughout the Bible.

Lev

[Lev]

...and then our dog died and my mother told me that of course no animals were in heaven....

Why on earth would any sane child want to go to that place?

The concept of "new creation," unlike the concept of "die and go to heaven," lets you keep your dog. The only caveat: he'll be a better dog the next go-round.

Lev

[Turtle]

Seriously thinking about heaven and eternity is what started me on the path to atheism. The idea of consciously living forever, doing nothing but praising a deity, is appalling if you think about it. I spent some time on other concepts of eternal life for a while. It is appealing to think of our constituent parts, molecules, atoms, and etcetera, living on in other objects and living beings. It is also appealing to think of producing "good vibrations" or " energy" that lives on because of our actions , but then there is guilt for producing "bad vibrations."

I am happy to accept that when I am dead, that's it. What happens to my constituent parts after I die is irrelevant to how I live now. It's actually a relief.

One thing I can't understand is if people are so all fired anxious to get to heaven, why do they spend so much effort in staying alive and keeping others alive. I also wonder about the supposed state of our souls when we get there. Will everyone be the mental age they were when they died? Will there be billions of miscarried and aborted souls in heaven, not to mention mentally impaired souls? Then there is the question of memories and bodies (spiritual or otherwise). What exactly is it that will be "living " forever? And where is heaven any way?