Public shaming

[HamBiscuit]

OTHER THAN the obvious letter reading, kicking people out, literal spying then spreading ugly rumors, and shunning, what else has gone on in your old place to shame people?

One among many fucked up experiences I had as far as other types of public shaming goes like so:

Wednesday night was bible study and meetings for everyone to get their assignments at the end of the night. (next song leader, who's counting money, who's praying, ect ect) But y'all already know about all that. Not many people came on Wednesday nights, and even less people stayed for the assignments for the next week. Because I mean, it's Wednesday freakin night. People have to work.

My dad was a deacon. Then an elder. So we always stayed afterwards for the meetings. One night, the leader asked us all to sit close by. We filled one pew. They took a polaroid picture of us. I see it hanging on the back board Sunday morning. The preacher gets up and shames the whole congregation for not staying. "We have 200 people in this congregation and only 15 show up. You can see who on the billboard, and you can thank them". Or something smartass like that.

[Ivy]

Wow, talk about passive aggressive shaming. Lovely.

[Struggler]

I've attended churches where people were called out, not by name, for not attending this or that. We'd read something like, "Only a dozen people came to ...."
When people came back after being back for a bit, they might read about in the bulletin the following week.
The calls and questions of "Where WERE you last week?" were bad, as were those who would ask, "What is so important that you weren't here last Sunday night?"

[HamBiscuit]

I've attended churches where people were called out, not by name, for not attending this or that. We'd read something like, "Only a dozen people came to ...."
When people came back after being back for a bit, they might read about in the bulletin the following week.
The calls and questions of "Where WERE you last week?" were bad, as were those who would ask, "What is so important that you weren't here last Sunday night?"

When the answer was "I had to work", no matter who it was, it's always "can't you request that day off?"

[gordie91]

Wow Ham that is bold! Not sure that would encourage many to come to the meetings, maybe encourage them to leave but not so much for staying.

[HamBiscuit]

Wow Ham that is bold! Not sure that would encourage many to come to the meetings, maybe encourage them to leave but not so much for staying.

Guilt trips, that's it. They were good at that. They asked me that about work when I was in college. But, I worked Sunday mornings. On purpose. The GM at my job used to go to the same church, so I told him I needed help getting out. He scheduled me for Sunday mornings, and I told him I'd do double shifts on Sunday. So, he made it happen. I did it to have an excuse, but I think I did it out of spite, too

And they were bold, alright!

My mom told me this story about how when she was in middle or high school (idk which), she had a friend from school come to visit one Sunday.
At the end of service, someone asks her friend what church she goes to. She was a baptist. Mom said that person flat out told her she's going to hell unless she starts coming to CoC. OBVIOUSLY that friend never talked to her again. Mom was so embarrassed. Rightfully.
And I fully believe her story after having my whole experience.

[gordie91]

Wow Ham that is bold! Not sure that would encourage many to come to the meetings, maybe encourage them to leave but not so much for staying.

Guilt trips, that's it. They were good at that. They asked me that about work when I was in college. But, I worked Sunday mornings. On purpose. The GM at my job used to go to the same church, so I told him I needed help getting out. He scheduled me for Sunday mornings, and I told him I'd do double shifts on Sunday. So, he made it happen. I did it to have an excuse, but I think I did it out of spite, too

And they were bold, alright!

My mom told me this story about how when she was in middle or high school (idk which), she had a friend from school come to visit one Sunday.
At the end of service, someone asks her friend what church she goes to. She was a baptist. Mom said that person flat out told her she's going to hell unless she starts coming to CoC. OBVIOUSLY that friend never talked to her again. Mom was so embarrassed. Rightfully.
And I fully believe her story after having my whole experience.

I know, it is as if they can make you feel guilty or ashamed you will just flip a switch and say "Ok, you are right, I'll be there twice on Sundays, Wed. night and any other time the door is open". Didn't work on us and I don't think it is that effective across the board.

A little of my own experience, our youngest son, 12 years younger than our middle child was a handful when he came to us, fostered then adopted. As he got older we discovered some things that we had never dealt with when our older children were growing up. This kid had and still does have a nuclear powered energy source that is at full speed when not medicated. If the routine was fouled up he would blow a gasket and it was on for hours. He needed routine and he also needed medication in order to sleep. Believe me it was pitiful.

So, as he got older, we told everyone at our little church what was up and that during the school year Sunday and Wednesday nights were probably not going to happen. If he didn't get rest the next day was shot. It literally was health reasons. Time goes by and we finally make the switch, long time coming and also a long story. We began going to an Orthodox Church and traveling to watch my daughter compete in college. My father in law is scheduled to preach a meeting in the next town and this church also supports our preacher and is where my parents and sibling attend. I politely write an email telling the preacher we are going to look around, we had moved out of the town, and would not be back. I did this so no one would question my father in law and make him uncomfortable and my wife because she wasn't ready to confront them.

Ok, the preacher responds to my email. He is sorry to see us leave, wished we had talked first, was there something wrong and then oh btw, you and your family haven't been so committed and the little one really should be forming good habits by going to bible class. The guy is and was clueless. But it gets better. The next month he sends his monthly report to my dad's church and lets them know we are gone and hopes we are more committed at our new place unlike we were at is old place. Luckily, my dad is a normal human and made that letter disappear.

My question throughout the whole time, What did this joker hope to accomplish by insulting us and trying to cause problems, potentially, with my parents and their church. Thankfully, my parents and brother, regard family highly and were not willing to cause problems for their son. They don't like that we are Orthodox, but they know a thing or two about respect.

So, sometimes the help we get is from some very unlikely places. Your boss understood which made him willing to help and my parents knew my side and why I was leaving. It all gets better, stay positive.

[HamBiscuit]

I know, it is as if they can make you feel guilty or ashamed you will just flip a switch and say "Ok, you are right, I'll be there twice on Sundays, Wed. night and any other time the door is open". Didn't work on us and I don't think it is that effective across the board.

A little of my own experience, our youngest son, 12 years younger than our middle child was a handful when he came to us, fostered then adopted. As he got older we discovered some things that we had never dealt with when our older children were growing up. This kid had and still does have a nuclear powered energy source that is at full speed when not medicated. If the routine was fouled up he would blow a gasket and it was on for hours. He needed routine and he also needed medication in order to sleep. Believe me it was pitiful.

So, as he got older, we told everyone at our little church what was up and that during the school year Sunday and Wednesday nights were probably not going to happen. If he didn't get rest the next day was shot. It literally was health reasons. Time goes by and we finally make the switch, long time coming and also a long story. We began going to an Orthodox Church and traveling to watch my daughter compete in college. My father in law is scheduled to preach a meeting in the next town and this church also supports our preacher and is where my parents and sibling attend. I politely write an email telling the preacher we are going to look around, we had moved out of the town, and would not be back. I did this so no one would question my father in law and make him uncomfortable and my wife because she wasn't ready to confront them.

Ok, the preacher responds to my email. He is sorry to see us leave, wished we had talked first, was there something wrong and then oh btw, you and your family haven't been so committed and the little one really should be forming good habits by going to bible class. The guy is and was clueless. But it gets better. The next month he sends his monthly report to my dad's church and lets them know we are gone and hopes we are more committed at our new place unlike we were at is old place. Luckily, my dad is a normal human and made that letter disappear.

My question throughout the whole time, What did this joker hope to accomplish by insulting us and trying to cause problems, potentially, with my parents and their church. Thankfully, my parents and brother, regard family highly and were not willing to cause problems for their son. They don't like that we are Orthodox, but they know a thing or two about respect.

So, sometimes the help we get is from some very unlikely places. Your boss understood which made him willing to help and my parents knew my side and why I was leaving. It all gets better, stay positive.

Wow. How petty and insensitive they ignore all of that and write a letter. Glad your dad was a normal human being!

[ena]

All men's righteousness is as filthy rags. It's in the Old Testament. It means the the best you will ever be is a sinner. So you have sinners condemning sinners. Let him that is without sin cast the first stone? Peter was crucified upside down. He requested this. The reason apparently was he felt he did not deserve to die like the Lord. Paul was beheaded. Both died under Nero. Probably 64 to 68 CE. Rome burned in 64 CE. Nero blamed Christians and Christians blamed Nero.

[agricola]

from a friend, speaking about a post in the NYTimes Opinion page (h**ps://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/26/opinion/sund ... RW1An3tzyI) entitled: We're Less and Less a Christian Nation and I Blame Some Blowhards

I think one thing that this analysis misses is that there are basically two views of humanity available to people. SOME in various religious arenas come at life with the view that humanity is basically evil, separated from G-d, unable to do good on their own without G-d and that the end of humanity will be heralded by a horrific end to the world... The other view is that people are capable of good on their own, that most people are good (or want to do good) and that humanity will prevail in solving problems... I think if you look at the current split in our country, it basically falls along those lines (IMO). Those that view humanity as basically bad also do not tend to think that people other than themselves and those they admire deserve a living wage; do not believe that people are entitled to medical care; tend to see people as moochers and low lifes.... whereas those who view people as naturally good tend to back social actions that presume that given a chance, people will do better. Those that view humanity as basically evil presume that social actions are a lost cause and that people will abuse them.

Obviously this is an over simplification. However, I really believe that this lies at the crux of the reason why we seem to be in a place where people are experiencing two different America's. One is full of drug addicts and criminals and requires carrying a gun at all times to protect oneself because the world is a dangerous place; and the other view tends to see problems and wonder what kinds of programs, outreaches, or interventions can change the situation. And never the twain will meet, in my view. And yes, religion is in this mix. Doctrinally, some churches push the "evil humanity" view, and some push the "humanity needs our help" view.

I'm reminded of the old story of the two dogs fighting - when asked which one will win, the black or white dog, it comes down to the one you feed. Which one will it be?

I think my old friend here always posts very thoughtful things, and this comment was particularly good.
Care to 'guess' where she would place the CoC? (''Doctrinally, some churches push the 'evil humanity' view, and some push the 'humanity needs our help' view.")