A place to snark and vent about CoC doctrine and/or our experiences in the CoC. This is a place for SUPPORT and AGREEMENT only, not a place to tell someone their experience and feelings are wrong, or why we disagree with them.
OK, so even back with W, there is this notion that Islamic Terrorist are not really Muslims or are not "real" Muslims or not following "real" Islam. Some variant of that phrase. So it comes up in USA policy but also in regards to (for instance) ISIS killing other Muslims because they are not the right kind or not "Muslim" enough. Same sort of thing in Iraq and other places between Shia and Sunni where violence is being justified or explained. So these psycho killer types deny that the folks they are killing are really following "the prophet"...each in essence claims the other is not following "real" Islam.
It dawned on me this is like CofC folks refusing to use the term "Christian" to refer to other believers in Christ. And we see it to a great extent in the politics of immigration, abortion, Global Warming, and same-sex. If some one does not hold the exact same POV on some topic then they must be dealt with...usually harshly.
Seems rather obvious now and this is expected I guess, since the root concept is still "one true church-ism" no matter the topic ...if you are not exactly the same as me then you need to be converted or marginalized or killed (if one is a terrorist). Despite all the "co-exist" bumper stickers there is this overwhelming need to be "right" and to "win". But like WOPR found out, you can't win. We need to drop copies of the WarGames movie all over the Middle East.
Isn't the world wonderful...I am all for rational optimism and I am staying positive.
I have a coexist bumper sticker. It is just a plea for tolerance and I am willing to extend that to many other groups, after all.
History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.
[quote="klp"]OK, so even back with W, there is this notion that Islamic Terrorist are not really Muslims or are not "real" Muslims or not following "real" Islam. Some variant of that phrase. So it comes up in USA policy but also in regards to (for instance) ISIS killing other Muslims because they are not the right kind or not "Muslim" enough. Same sort of thing in Iraq and other places between Shia and Sunni where violence is being justified or explained. So these psycho killer types deny that the folks they are killing are really following "the prophet"...each in essence claims the other is not following "real" Islam. [/quore]
The Muslim world is not monolithic. Gays are not monolithic. Christians are not monolithic. The problem is there is no single voice to where you can turn. We live in a world of differing viewpoints and trying a one size fits all approach doesn't work. That is is the problem I had with W. Not every thing means that war is the best solution. The following link Cheney is talking about the reasons why not to go into Iraq during the first Gulf war. The remaining reasons are many of the reasons why we should not go in. Guess what we got. ISIS is the quagmire.
Evil begets evil. Remember the weapons of mass destruction. I know Saddam had some. They may have been shipped to Syria. Anybody's guess. Did he pose a credible threat to the US. This thing stinks of paranoia and gross evil.
klp wrote:
since the root concept is still "one true church-ism" no matter the topic ...if you are not exactly the same as me then you need to be converted or marginalized or killed (if one is a terrorist). Despite all the "co-exist" bumper stickers there is this overwhelming need to be "right" and to "win". But like WOPR found out, you can't win. We need to drop copies of the WarGames movie all over the Middle East.
There is a slider in War Games that few get. When the Boy comes into their home the TV is talking about a strike at the condom recycling plant.
ISIS kills both Muslims and not. Obviously a threat to both. It may not behoove the US to walk in with both guns blazing. We may not even have too. Europe is part of this solution. Using group consensus may be called for.
At least CoCers don't cut off your head if you don't convert. They might annoy the hell out of you or shun you til you die but...they let you live and for the most part leave you alone.
Pour yourself a drink, put on some lipstick, and pull yourself together. ~ Liz Taylor
Starr wrote:At least CoCers don't cut off your head if you don't convert. They might annoy the hell out of you or shun you til you die but...they let you live and for the most part leave you alone.
I agree but do not limit to your view only to the physical. Character assassination is a tool of the gossips that can even extend outward into the greater community. I know it even happens in churches. The way this stuff works the more you protest the more guilty you are. I am sure there are many here that have dealt with this monster and prefer they reply.
I've watched ritual executions of executives in corporations where you can only hear the truth by a well connected rumor mill. It's interesting to know what happened when the guy in question moves on to better things. That is more common than you think.
Last edited by ena on Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I get what you're saying, ena. And I never had to live in an area that had a strong COC presence. I also don't have any family now that is still COC. It was harder on my childhood friend who was disfellowshipped and stayed in that town where she would run into CoCers on a reg basis. I left town and didn't have that emotional hassle.
Pour yourself a drink, put on some lipstick, and pull yourself together. ~ Liz Taylor
Starr wrote:I get what you're saying, ena. And I never had to live in an area that had a strong COC presence. I also don't have any family now that is still COC. It was harder on my childhood friend who was disfellowshipped and stayed in that town where she would run into CoCers on a reg basis. I left town and didn't have that emotional hassle.
I am much like you but I do understand and feel for those trapped. The damage is spiritual and emotional. I don't think that a psychologist would really understand. My son graduated in psychology. He told me once. Do you know the most in therapy come from fundamentalist religions. No big surprise. Did something like this religion come from God? Ignore the man behind the curtain.
That is more common than you think.
No big surprise. Did something like this religion come from God? Ignore the man behind the curtain.