A place to snark and vent about CoC doctrine and/or our experiences in the CoC. This is a place for SUPPORT and AGREEMENT only, not a place to tell someone their experience and feelings are wrong, or why we disagree with them.
SolaDude wrote:
Don't we all remember all those dreadfully tearful "it's too late" sermons, talking about all those who didn't make it because they didn't have the chance to go through the 5 steps before they found themselves in their death bed?
My church tried to scare you into baptism. Baptism should be a response to your faith. It is an outward declaration of your faith. Mine used Act 2:38 to prove that baptism saves you.
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Hear, Confess, Repent, Baptize and Receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost. Note that Gift of the Spirit comes after baptizm. This it is sign you are saved. Now read all of Acts Chapter 2. Note they received the Gift of the Spirit before baptism. Context, context, context. They were not there on the day of Pentecost.
ena wrote:My church tried to scare you into baptism.
I also remember sermons and prayers with statements like "Oh, how thankful we are that God gave us the waters of baptism", or "Oh, how can we ever express our thanks for God's word that gave us the waters of baptism", etc. Christ is simply granted second place in their theology.
The greatest absurdity I remember were those who took a mobile lift and a horse tank to nursing homes to lift people out of their wheelchairs and into a horse tank full of water to baptize them, hopefully without killing them I guess. Pity the poor people who remained bedfast.
Ivy wrote:I didn't realize RIP or "Rest in Peace" was considered so offensive and hurtful. I have used it, carefully, in the past...usually not with someone who's death is recent. In reading through these, I have taken note of the comments and I'll not be using that anymore.
When my Dad died, I remember being hurt and offended by a friend who said on FB: "So sorry; wish I had known him". It just seemed so flippant and uncaring to me. This was also a friend I'd had a falling out with, so there was that factor. People who are grieving are so raw inside that anything can hit them the wrong way and be hurtful, even when it's meant to be comforting.
I really don't know if I am saying the right thing when someone loses a loved one. I can only hope that I'm not offending them. I find RIP to be offensive mainly when it's used right after someone has died. If the death was years ago, I don't have a problem with it I guess. But if I lost a family member and someone directly said RIP in response to their death notice and that's all they said, I would find it lazy and callous.
Ivy wrote:I didn't realize RIP or "Rest in Peace" was considered so offensive and hurtful. I have used it, carefully, in the past...usually not with someone who's death is recent. In reading through these, I have taken note of the comments and I'll not be using that anymore.
When my Dad died, I remember being hurt and offended by a friend who said on FB: "So sorry; wish I had known him". It just seemed so flippant and uncaring to me. This was also a friend I'd had a falling out with, so there was that factor. People who are grieving are so raw inside that anything can hit them the wrong way and be hurtful, even when it's meant to be comforting.
I really don't know if I am saying the right thing when someone loses a loved one. I can only hope that I'm not offending them. I find RIP to be offensive mainly when it's used right after someone has died. If the death was years ago, I don't have a problem with it I guess. But if I lost a family member and someone directly said RIP in response to their death notice and that's all they said, I would find it lazy and callous.
No, I used it mainly with people like celebrities I didn't know who died a long time ago. But no, if someone's grandmother just died, I wouldn't say "Rest in Peace" or RIP.
ena wrote:My church tried to scare you into baptism.
I also remember sermons and prayers with statements like "Oh, how thankful we are that God gave us the waters of baptism", or "Oh, how can we ever express our thanks for God's word that gave us the waters of baptism", etc. Christ is simply granted second place in their theology.
The greatest absurdity I remember were those who took a mobile lift and a horse tank to nursing homes to lift people out of their wheelchairs and into a horse tank full of water to baptize them, hopefully without killing them I guess. Pity the poor people who remained bedfast.
I heard of a bathtub being used. The problem is that they think that the waters of Baptism saves. When it the acceptance of Jesus as messaiah that saves. It is insulting to the very one who saves you. He is very gracious about your sin if you do not always go out of your way. He is not impressed with gold or money. The love of money corrupts. Those that preach that God wants you to be rich are massively wrong. I was making money buying and selling houses. I know how to build them from the ground up. I was nearly killed in 2005 and was saved by the removal of a giant hemotoma (blood clot) from an accident. The neurosurgeons scalped me and cut a triangular plate out of my skull to take it out. I was bleeding out. I was on warfarin to thin the blood. I was semicomatose for a week. I was woken up daily. I was ensconced on a cloud in a bright light and was told by the Lord to stop focusing on money because I had made enough. He was right. I did not want to come back. He later sent a stroke my way in 2011. It affected my ability to move but did not take me out. I have learned what it is like to be disabled so I can help others. A homeless woman that lives with me and my wife is the best prayer warrior I have ever met. I have seen her get miracles in a subtle way. God does not need to show off today. She had a heart attack and stroke and sepsis. She was saved by doctors and had to spend sometime in rehab before she could come back. We do not have wheel chair transport. She worked herself so she could walk enough to get into our CRV. She managed to do that with practice. She does wear adult diapers but does go on her own. She cleans up her own messes and we trash a bag of diapers once a week. Mostly normal usage. She herself is a miracle. I told her that God must have a use for her because she should be dead as I should be. I use her alot for prayer support. I do get positive answers to prayers sometimes. I never saw any positive answers to prayer in the CoC. They were very absent. My sister did have a valid vision and she died CoC, There are few saved from the CoC but they are best out. I spend many years in Churches that they would condemn. I have many decent people there. Satan corrupts the church leadership where he can. I do not know how my church is today. It exists but the faces and eldership has changed. I have been away over fifty years. I went through athiesm when I discovered an error in Hebrew translation on the Christian side. It is in Isaiah 7:14. Read the whole prophecy to understand it. It is the virgin translation when the woman was not a virgin because Isaiah had sex with her. The prophesy is about Isaiah's son and king Ahaz. God is telling him that this attack on Jerusalem will be temporary. Ahaz was an evil King as was common in Judah. The problem was caused by closet pagans that were outwardly Jews. In the excavation of first century Jewish homes pagan miniatures have been found. There is the way it is supposed to be and the way it is. Jesus is not fooled by window dressing of the Pharisees. He called them an evil and adulterous generation. He believed in resurrection as did the Pharisees but they were adulterous because they added to the Torah. They were told not to. The CoC does the same with ample warning.
Deut 4:2 kjv
2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.
They claim to understand the Bible but don't. It takes a lifetime to understand the Bible. I was delayed 60 years because of false teaching. I do not treat that lightly. It is very cruel. I am very blunt about it. I was taught many lies. The mark of the CoC is extreme ignorance. There is some here but you can learn your way out of it. It is not about intelligence but rather about learning.
ena wrote: The problem is that they think that the waters of Baptism saves.
And they will argue that is not what they believe until the cows come home. Sounds like you have really been a survivor in many ways in your life, ena.
ena wrote: The problem is that they think that the waters of Baptism saves.
And they will argue that is not what they believe until the cows come home. Sounds like you have really been a survivor in many ways in your life, ena.
The CoC because I believed through put me though a Hell on earth as bad as you can get here. Fortunately here I have changed my life in many ways and continue to improve both in health and Bible. I have seen things that no one here has experienced. Everyone else has their unique experiences. I do openly trash the CoC because it is deserved. I am the worst advertisement I can be. I have exactly zero respect for the total ignorance I have seen. Even many exers suffer from that. I do sense your interest in the truth. Keep on that track because the Lord loves the truth and will educate you if you are willing to learn. I realize that my trashing the CoC has hit some nerves because for some family members are involved. There is some salvation out of the CoC but as Jesus expressed, "The way is straight and narrow and few there are that find it." This is the literal truth. I know the Bible has some errors and some insertions. The Greek manuscripts do not agree. Eventually there will be discussions if the Hebrew gospels were first or not. You are dealing with Jews and everything has a Jewish reference including scripture. Jesus was a Torah only abiding Jew. He angered the Pharasees because they had added to the Torah. Modern Day Othodox are modern day Pharasees. They observe what is not in the Torah. This is a form of idolatry. This is the reason the Jews were kicked out of Palestine. The CoC observes things that are not in the Bible. A Republican who listens to Jesus would think that he is a socialist. Cooperation to help someone seems like socialism but is not. The point is that substance freely given is not socialism. They fail to see the difference. The problem with the CoC is they are hung up with there own rules and to Hell with thinking outside the box. I am on a numbered US patent because I can think out side the box. A friend of mine and I architected the world's fastest solid state disk drive. We had the management team sign on and take credit. They could not do what we architected. We replaced the design of a contractor with nearly no buffering. The contractor used three levels of buffers that would not fit on the board. He and I spent four hours in front a white board block diagramming and arguing. It is actually fun. A mutual friend who was a great designer put it together with error correction. This is very difficult. I am no genius but have been around them. I have never seen one brag about how smart they are. They show you with amazing solutions. Creative people are not a feature of our education system. It is a God given gift. There are many in engineering. I am somewhat creative but my specialty is in debunking. Every creative will generate 1,000 ideas a minute. Only one will be applicable. I apply it to religion. I know now that Jesus is not impressed about how religious you are. He might observe how steadfast you are. Paul was a very observant Jew. He was blinded to get his attention and redirect his path. He made an incredible Christian that saved Christianity from extinction. Jesus sees your spirit and intent. You are in a sense exposed. All the pride is counted against you. All the lies are counted against you. I cannot say what he will forgive or not. I do know what he is concerned about. I am reading Exodus to find specific verses. I did find the Golden Calf incident. They built the tabernacle. It still exists folded up and hidden. It will be discovered during the Tribulation as Ron Wyatt was told. He saw the ark of the covenant from the first Temple. The second temple did not have one. The second temple was rendered unstable with the earthquake generated by death of Jesus. The hulk of it destroyed in 70 CE. I do not know where this information comes from yet. I have verified much that I was told today. Keep learning you probably have more time than I do. It does not matter if we end up in the same place. The dead generally sleep. I know that the passage of a thousand years seems like a minute. I don't know why people pray to Mary when Jesus and God answer prayers. Mary is asleep. She was a vessel used by God as you hopefully will be. There is no pride in that but a sense of accomplishment if you pull it off. That is allowed.
Now, Ivy - you know perfectly well that according to any coc, Catholics are not 'Christians'.
History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.
I know former Catholics and practicing Catholics. I have many problems with the Catholic faith not from the CoC perspective. I do not believe that you can truly understand the nature of Christ. Jesus was human but very special. The depictions of the Crucified Christ are wrong. The heal bone was nailed flat to the upright not the front of the foot. There is an example in a museum in Israel. A heal bone was found with the nail still in it. The middle of the hand is not stable enough. The finger bones extend into the palm. You can feel it on the back of your hand. The lower palm has a bone that will not tear out. The arm has two bones. This is so you can rotate the lower arm. The upper arm rotates as a unit using the joint at the shoulder. The leg is similar. One thigh bone and two lower leg bones allow you to rotate the foot. Communion is not literal. It is symbolic. Catholics believe it is literal. The grape juice becomes blood and the wafer becomes flesh. They pray to Mary. Most humans are asleep. Those that are resurrected have resurrection bodies that live forever. Jesus is alive and well but very old. Jesus can answer prayers or approach God with requests. You pray through Jesus to approach God. You do not need a priest. Catholics use a priest to pray for them. That may work but it is more indirect. There is no super elder which what the Pope claims to be. There is a single point of failure. If the Popo is wrong with God the whole structure falls. All Christians sin. There should not even pretend to be perfect. You may have known people in the CoC that think they are perfect because they follow the CoC rules. They are guilty of the sin of pride and will be called on it. I have been in a semicomatose state for one week. I literally did not want to come back to this world. Years could pass at you would not miss them. Do not think that someone in a coma wants to come back just because you want them to. The idea of saints gaul me. Most truly great people do not consider themselves great. It is a true irony. Paul was involved in the murder of Steven. David was an Adulterer and guilty of murder. Peter was guilty on denying Jesus. Lot was guilty of getting his daughters pregnant. There are many examples in the Bible. It does not pull punches.
That gives you an idea of how long I've been gone from there!! LOL.