http://findthechurch.com

A place to snark and vent about CoC doctrine and/or our experiences in the CoC. This is a place for SUPPORT and AGREEMENT only, not a place to tell someone their experience and feelings are wrong, or why we disagree with them.
Lev
Posts: 418
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 7:58 pm

Re: http://findthechurch.com

Post by Lev »

agricola wrote:In other words, the NT is not at ALL clear about...
...very much related to how church assemblies ought to be conducted at all, besides to say that they should be orderly and mutually edifying.

Lev
User avatar
KLP
Posts: 2757
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:47 pm

Re: http://findthechurch.com

Post by KLP »

agricola wrote:... It was not, in fact, the practice of the first (or second) century church to restrict communion to Sundays.
agricola wrote:...the earliest Christian practice that is known, is daily availability, and periodic partaking.
Seems to me that there is basis to think the practice of early congregations was weekly from what is known and extra-Biblical. Here are a couple of reasons why I see a basis.
Didache 14:1 Also see 10:1ff
http://www.paracletepress.com/didache.html

And a little later there is Justin Martyr
http://www.biblicalperformancecriticism ... apology-67
Isn't the world wonderful...I am all for rational optimism and I am staying positive.
User avatar
agricola
Posts: 4778
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 10:31 pm

Re: http://findthechurch.com

Post by agricola »

As far as I can tell, it was available on a daily basis, with the assumption (or requirement) that is be taken at least once a week.

However, since there is no direct 'commandment' in the 'scripture' about whether to do it and if so, how and when, I don't see any problem with ANY of the current practices (daily, weekly, quarterly, whatever) because if you don't have an actual RULE, then of course, it is up to the congregation as a whole (or the leadership thereof) to set the standard, right?
History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.
User avatar
KLP
Posts: 2757
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:47 pm

Re: http://findthechurch.com

Post by KLP »

There just seems to be something more than coincidence to the weekly frequency from Creation to Sabbath day to the Lord's day. The Passover connection would argue for a yearly observance, but Acts 20:7 would tend to rule out annual. I am not aware of the ancient world having a quarterly frequency to anything, but there were the four solar based events.
Isn't the world wonderful...I am all for rational optimism and I am staying positive.
User avatar
agricola
Posts: 4778
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 10:31 pm

Re: http://findthechurch.com

Post by agricola »

Weeks are weird. Apparently the Babylonians came up with them, and MAYBE originally it was an attempt to subdivide a lunar month into equal parts (4). Four is another of those 'significant numbers' and the Mesopotamian culture was famous for its advanced numerology and astrology (early astronomy).
History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.
Lev
Posts: 418
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 7:58 pm

Re: http://findthechurch.com

Post by Lev »

Not all "weeks" are made up of seven days. Some cultures have divided the lunar month into longer or shorter periods than that. Of course now most people have adopted the seven-day week, probably because of Western influence, but it has not always been the only thing going.

Lev
User avatar
agricola
Posts: 4778
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 10:31 pm

Re: http://findthechurch.com

Post by agricola »

I think the other periods are not lunar related. The lunar month is 28 days, which lends itself easily to four sevens, and both four and seven are 'significant numbers'.
The Romans had a solar calendar, with (typically) 30 days divided into sets of five.
Our modern calendar is solar. The Muslim calendar is lunar entirely, and the Islamic year is 11 days shorter than the western calendar year, so Muslim 'dates' move back through the season (this explains why Ramadan comes any time of the year. It comes at the same time of the LUNAR year though). The Jewish calendar is lunar but has corrections (leap years) to match up to the solar seasons and keep the holidays in their proper seasons.


But we in the west owe a lot to Mesopotamia - our clock with 24 hours of 60 minutes each. Our 360 degree circle. Geometry. Astrology - The Zodiac itself....all gifts from Mesopotamia - including the seven day week.

Now I've lost track. How did we get here from a discussion of online sources for members of small denominational groups to find each other while traveling?

I would think such a thing would be a major challenge to create and maintain, for a denomination without any sort of hierarchy above the congregational level.
History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.
B.H.
Posts: 4404
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:26 pm

Re: http://findthechurch.com

Post by B.H. »

The Muslim calendar is lunar entirely, and the Islamic year is 11 days shorter than the western calendar year, so Muslim 'dates' move back through the season (this explains why Ramadan comes any time of the year. It comes at the same time of the LUNAR year though).
Yep.
The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point is to change it.----Karl Marx
User avatar
KLP
Posts: 2757
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:47 pm

Re: http://findthechurch.com

Post by KLP »

agricola wrote:...But we in the west owe a lot to Mesopotamia - our clock with 24 hours of 60 minutes each. Our 360 degree circle. Geometry. Astrology - The Zodiac itself....all gifts from Mesopotamia - including the seven day week.
....
But that assumes Mesopotamia invented from scratch and that pre-Abraham Bible history is allegory. Perhaps Mesopotamia was just as adept at copying traditions as were others...perhaps they copied it from the original Noah oral history.

BTW, on that FindTheChurch website there is a FAQ page but for me it did not return answers. But a couple questions were funny, one was "Shouldn't this site be called find the building instead of find the church?" :)
Isn't the world wonderful...I am all for rational optimism and I am staying positive.
User avatar
agricola
Posts: 4778
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 10:31 pm

Re: http://findthechurch.com

Post by agricola »

Hah!! You are quite right! Send them a letter and tell them so. It's your Christian duty to correct error!
History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.
Post Reply