Before Campbell ? Rumney Marsh and Bow Lane

[ena]

Alexander Campbell received a Baptist baptism. Why would the CoC listen to someone that they think is damned.

[Opie]

You are absolutely correct about Alexander Campbell receiving a Baptist baptism. On his deathbed in 1866, some of Alexander Campbell's last words were "I have always regretted that the Baptists and we had to part, it ought not to have been so." If old Brother Campbell was still alive today he would probably be black listed as an "unsound teacher", and it's for sure that he would never be invited to speak at most CoC congregations. In fact, he probably wouldn't even be welcome at most CoC congregations.

[Ivy]

If old Brother Campbell was still alive today he would probably be black listed as an "unsound teacher", and it's for sure that he would never be invited to speak at most CoC congregations. In fact, he probably wouldn't even be welcome at most CoC congregations.

I agree with you, Opie. He would not be accepted, except by the more "liberal" congregations. Ironically, the same can be said about Jesus...if he were walking the earth in the flesh today, I sincerely doubt he would be permitted inside an NICOC, much less allowed to teach.

[Shane R]

The Cane Ridge Revival and some of those other early camp meetings were ecumenical in a way that simply could not happen in the CoC today. Maybe in the Disciples, but not the CoC. Perhaps that is part of the reason the CoC hasn't seen any type of significant revival in decades.

[Ivy]

The Cane Ridge Revival and some of those other early camp meetings were ecumenical in a way that simply could not happen in the CoC today. Maybe in the Disciples, but not the CoC. Perhaps that is part of the reason the CoC hasn't seen any type of significant revival in decades.

They have really painted themselves into a corner. Sad.

[Lerk]

You are absolutely correct about Alexander Campbell receiving a Baptist baptism. On his deathbed in 1866, some of Alexander Campbell's last words were "I have always regretted that the Baptists and we had to part, it ought not to have been so." If old Brother Campbell was still alive today he would probably be black listed as an "unsound teacher", and it's for sure that he would never be invited to speak at most CoC congregations. In fact, he probably wouldn't even be welcome at most CoC congregations.

Since he went with instrumental music, I'm sure he would! Most NI-CoC preachers I've heard say they're thankful for the work he did, but they imply that he "fell away."

When I was still a believer, I had already realized that CoC teaching on baptism was not scriptural. I believed that it was necessary, that the "5 steps" were correct, but in the CoC they teach that you can hear, believe, repent, confess, and be baptized, and never be forgiven of your sins because you thought you were already saved before you were baptized.

A guy at work randomly asked me one day, while I was getting a cup of coffee, whether I thought one was saved at the point of faith or the point of baptism. I explained. He nodded and said he could see that side, but he could also see the arguments to the contrary. The he added something that woke me up. He said "fortunately for me, it's a moot point. I've been baptized, so whether I was saved at the point of faith or the point of baptism doesn't matter. I know I'm saved either way."

I've tried convincing CoC people that you don't have to understand the "why" in order to have obeyed it. If you tell your child to do something a certain way and they do it, then later you realize they didn't understand why they needed to do it that certain way, you don't say they were disobedient!

I have a son who is a NI-CoC preacher. I thought I had talked about this enough before he was an adult that he would have agreed with it, but he's pretty stuck in the "you can't be taught wrong and baptized right" idea. I hope I can convince him at some point that what you believe about it doesn't matter. That way, maybe he'll stop being angry at his brother who is no longer going to a CoC. (He's mad because he believes his brother has led his wife away from "the truth" and that he's endangering his daughter's soul.)

The other son is actually a non-believer, but has found something that works for he and his wife. I'm a non-believer, also, but still do the NI-CoC thing because I want family relationships to be as cordial as possible. I could possibly get away with going to a mainline CoC or maybe even the Christian Church, and maybe I'll test those waters soon. But preacher-son needs to be pulled out of the dogma.

[B.H.]

Just remember the old qoute from Menken: " A man will not understand a point when his livelyhood depends on him not understanding it" or something like that.

[Ivy]

Just remember the old qoute from Menken: " A man will not understand a point when his livelyhood depends on him not understanding it" or something like that.

Isn't that the TRUTH!!????

[ena]

I believe your faith saves you, but baptism is commanded. I think someone who is on their deathbed and repents and believes, but is unable to be baptized, would still be saved. Isn’t there in incident in the NT of people receiving the Holy Spirit before they were baptized?

I believe they were saved before baptism.

Acts 10 kjv

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

I am going to add acts 2.38. Notice the order is different between receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit and baptism. The CoC bases its theology on snap shots. Compare with Acts 10 above. Exact opposites Bart would be proud of this one.

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.